What’s in this Episode?

Every church will eventually encounter conflict. It’s a tough but essential challenge for growth and unity. In today’s podcast, we have the privilege of speaking with Pastor Tim Barker, the South Texas Network Superintendent, who oversees more than 300 churches and nearly 1,000 pastors. With decades of experience, he understands how to lead through difficult times and handle conflict in a way that honors God. Pastor Barker shares practical, biblical steps to effectively resolve disputes, remove bitterness, and move forward in unity.

 

Read the Transcript:

Dick Hardy 0:00
Hey, friend, it’s great to be with you on this episode of The Church Tips Podcast. And I have the privilege today to hang out with my buddy from South Texas, Tim Barker. Tim, say hi to all the great pastors watching this podcast.

Tim Barker 0:18
Hey, good to see everybody. I’m privileged to be here with my friend Dick Hardy, and look forward to our discussion today.

Dick Hardy 0:26
Well, I really appreciate you taking time, Tim, really, to jump into this critical subject that we all deal with in the church, and that’s the issue of conflict. I’m sure there’s a pastor or two out there that doesn’t have to deal with conflict periodically, but Tim and I, Tim and I have been around the block long enough to know that there are times where a pastor has to demonstrate leadership and deal with conflict from a biblical perspective.

Dick Hardy 0:52
So Tim, let me just drop a quarter in you and just start talking to us about oh, and by the way, Tim, give a little snapshot. We’re talking to all denominations and everybody here, but you have oversight to how many pastors there in South Texas?

Tim Barker 1:06
Just under 1,000 ministers in South Texas ministry network.

Dick Hardy 1:12
And about how many churches?

Tim Barker 1:13
A little over 300

Dick Hardy 1:15
Okay, great. So this is a guy who’s boots on the ground with pastors and churches, so talk to us, Tim with the conflict of the church. How do we deal with it biblically?

Tim Barker 1:25
Yeah, I remember early on in ministry, one of my one of my spiritual leaders, my presbyter, said to me, ministry is way too good not to enjoy it. And and that resonated with me as a young minister, and I, I purposed at that point to enjoy this season of life and ministry.

Tim Barker 1:46
Now, to be honest with you, there are times that I wish I could have a talk with him again, because some of it’s not been enjoyable. Yeah, I was asked recently, you know, as a network superintendent, what what is the least enjoyable thing you deal with, and by far it’s it’s moral failures.

Tim Barker 2:09
And a close second to that is having to deal with church conflict. Because if we would just do it biblically, if we would just deal with church conflict, conflict biblically, you know, it would, it would, it would have a better resolve for one thing, and it would be a lot easier to manage.

Tim Barker 2:24
And I just jotted down a few things. The first step in dealing with biblical approach to conflict, conflict resolution is to look inward. We have to take a look inside. You know, we, at that point, inspect our emotions, our responses, against the word of God.

And so that gives us the opportunity, in my opinion, and based on what I read in the Word of God, to to see if there’s like the script, if there’s any wicked way in me, if there’s any ulterior motive in this .

Tim Barker 3:00
So repent of our sin, prepare our hearts in a position of humility toward whatever the adversarial situation is in this matter. But a biblical approach to church conflict involves, number one, openness.

Being open minded, open hearted, with with our approach, in all honesty. Number two, patience. It takes time for all voices to be heard and and for mutual respect.

Tim Barker 3:43
Thirdly, empathy. Showing real and genuine compassion to ensure that disagreements don’t become personal. You know, that’s one thing as a network superintendent, I get to be involved in these and it’s not personal for me. I’m walking into it with no predisposition.

Tim Barker 4:07
And then actively listening. Listening attentively, to understand the concerns from everyone’s perspective. Framing in the Word. That, what I mean by that is considering how this issue aligns with Scripture and how it it draws people to Jesus.

Tim Barker 4:29
Let’s be honest, most of the time in church conflict, it’s not drawing people to Jesus, it’s pushing people away. And then seeking reconciliation, and that’s applying Jesus reconciliation steps, because his reconciliation steps foster unity and fulfill the mission of the church, and that’s really what our goal is in conflict resolution.

Tim Barker 4:58
Resolving disputes privately. I always ask when I receive that call, if I would consider getting involved in the situation. My first response is, I’m sure you assuming that you’re calling me now, I’m certain that you have already attempted to resolve this privately with the individual.

Tim Barker 5:22
And unfortunately, they, a lot of times say they haven’t. You’re my first call. You know that means I want to inflict pain. You know the thing that you got to understand nowhere in the bylaws of our fellowship or in Scripture, do I see that my responsibility in any of this is punitive. It’s restorative.

Tim Barker 5:47
So resolving the disputes privately, settling differences between individuals before seeking help. And unfortunately, that doesn’t happen sometimes. Involving a brother or a sister that’s more mature, bringing someone with more wisdom and maturity to help resolve the conflict a lot of times, will be helpful.

Tim Barker 6:10
And then Christian arbitration. Agreeing to help a neutral third party decide the dispute according to Christian principles. How can we deal with this and resolve this? And then, years ago, I was introduced to what is called the pause principle, and this acronym to help with conflict resolution.

Tim Barker 6:32
P is for pray, get the facts, seek counsel, develop options. A- affirm relationship. That means showing respect, mutual concern for the other person in this. U- understand interest. Identify others, concerns, their needs, their limitations. S… P, A, U, S. S- search for creative solutions.

Tim Barker 6:59
So together, brainstorm. Prayerfully together brainstorm for how can we get past this? And then E- evaluate options, objectively. Evaluate, but don’t argue. The goal of conflict resolution ultimately is unity in the church, because disunity poses a threat and unity.

Tim Barker 7:29
Disunity poses a threat to the church. Unity poses a threat to the devil, who will use every opportunity he possibly can to take advantage of unresolved issues. Especially those involving anger or bitterness or self pity or envy. I mean, think about it.

Tim Barker 7:54
And these, these, these emotions are involved in in, I would say, 99.9% of the church conflict that I deal with. Scriptures tell us that we are to Let all bitterness and wrath and anger and clamor and slander be put away from us with all malice, according to Ephesians 4.

Tim Barker 8:17
And and failure, then to to obey this command results in division in the body of Christ and sadly grieves the Holy Spirit. We’re also told not to allow, according to Hebrews 12:15 don’t let any root of bitterness spring up among us, lead leading us then into trouble or defilement.

Tim Barker 8:46
So clearly, a biblical method of conflict resolution is, is needed. Yeah, the New Testament has, has, I mean multiple commands to believers that are demonstrative of a life of peace with one another, and we’re repeatedly instructed to love one another.

Tim Barker 9:14
A silly example, but I remember when I was a camp counselor, back in my early days of ministry, and there was a there’s a group of kids that just could not get along, and I was having the hardest time just trying to get them to show them mutual respect and be nice.

Tim Barker 9:33
And, and I remember I had just had it. It was about the third or fourth day, and I was at my wit’s end, and one of the guys said, said, he said something that derogatory to one of his friends hurt his feelings and and, you know, the others were choosing sides. And I finally, I just, I said, it’s time for us to to have a talk.

Tim Barker 9:56
How many of you love Jesus? And they all raised their hand. And, and I’ve matured a little bit since then, but my response at that time as like a 20 year old college student doing camps in the summer, was, put your hands down. You don’t love Jesus. You’re all lying.

Tim Barker 10:14
They looked at me like, oh my and I said, you can’t. You can’t say you love Jesus and act like this. And then I went into 1 John. Let us love one another. Because love is of God, and everyone that loveth is born of God and knoweth God. He that loveth not knoweth not God. For God is love.

Tim Barker 10:38
Do you really think that you’re displaying the love of God, or the love that you have for God, by the way you’re acting and treating one another? I’m telling you, Dick, I gave an altar call kids, and I think we were all crying by the time it was over, and trying to love on each other, but you know, to live in harmony and peace with one another.

Tim Barker 10:58
The scripture tells us, in 2 Corinthians how to settle our differences and in that process, be patient, be kind, be tender hearted toward one another. Philippians 3, verse number 3 says we should consider others before ourselves. Well, you usually don’t see that in the middle of church, conflict or conflict resolution.

Tim Barker 11:22
Ephesians, 4:2 tells us to bear their burden, and then 1 Corinthians, 13:6 to rejoice in truth. Conflict is the antithesis of Christian behavior, and it’s outlined for us all throughout the Scripture. There are times when, despite every effort to reconcile, various issues seem to prevent us from resolving the conflict within the church.

Tim Barker 11:52
But specifically, and I’ll just throw this out there, I always refer people to Matthew, chapter 18, verse 15 and 17 through 17, where Jesus gives the steps for dealing with conflict. Specifically sinful behavior. And according to this passage, in the event of a of a conflict that involves overt sin, address it one-on-one.

Tim Barker 12:26
First, if it’s not resolved, then take it to a small group of mature believers, more than likely it would be a board of directors, a board of deacons. And then finally, involve the whole church, if it still remains a problem.

Tim Barker 12:42
The other passage I’ll throw it out is in Luke chapter 17, and I’ll just read it where Jesus says, Pay attention to yourselves. If your brother sins, rebuke him. If he repents, forgive him. And if he sins against you seven times in a day and then turns to you seven times, saying, I repent. You must forgive him.

Dick Hardy 13:05
Forgive him. Yeah.

Tim Barker 13:08
So any kind of disciplinary procedure should be for the purpose of restoring and, yeah, I, I love to see when it when it’s effective.

Dick Hardy 13:25
Yeah, yeah.

Tim Barker 13:26
Because it pleases, it pleases the Lord. And, you know, unfortunately, there are times when you walk into situations and you feel like there’s not going to be a resolve, and then all of a sudden, the Holy Spirit just kind of does what He does.

Dick Hardy 13:42
Does what He does. Brings it together. Yeah.

Tim Barker 13:44
Yeah.

Dick Hardy 13:45
Tim, do you ever find that you know you got different different pastors are listening to this, watching this. Some of them are very strong in their leadership skills. Others are not as strong and and maybe sometimes people push them around a little bit.

Dick Hardy 14:05
How do you advise a pastor who is maybe reticent to take the bull by the horns and jump in to solve a conflict inside their church? Is there any advice you would give them?

Tim Barker 14:20
I would, I would encourage people, you know, maybe that that particular personality, to seek advice from someone that’s unlike them. You know, get a perspective. How would… this is my plan, this is how I plan to remedy this. Because it might be better to to handle it a different way.

Dick Hardy 14:48
And talking to someone else might give you a different perspective.

Tim Barker 14:50
Perhaps, yeah, and then, on the other hand, the flip side of that is there, there, it’s a leader who is a is a pushover, or, I hate to say it that way, but other people coming against them. Maybe they need to assert themselves in the situation.

Dick Hardy 15:09
Step out. Yeah.

Tim Barker 15:11
Again, seek counsel from someone, a spiritual leader, a mentor that can can advise.

Dick Hardy 15:19
And then process through with the way you’ve just talked about. You know, Tim, this has been so good. If you’re gonna give a parting shot to a pastor, a leader who’s listening to this, they haven’t heard anything you’ve said, but you want them to remember this. What is it that they need to remember?

Tim Barker 15:39
In dealing with church conflict, in dealing with the process of restoration, I just would say, would remind us all of the scripture in Galatians chapter 6, where it says, if someone is caught in a sin or find you find yourself in need of being that person to bring restoration, you who are mature are to to restore them gently.

Dick Hardy 16:07
Yeah.

Tim Barker 16:07
And then it says, but watch yourselves, or you may also be tempted. It it’s again, goes back to what I said earlier. The the, you know, nowhere am I called to be punitive in nature. I’m called to be restorative. And I’m so grateful that Jesus was merciful to me and gracious to me.

Tim Barker 16:33
You know, there was a there was an old song that we sang when I was a kid growing up, one of the first choruses I ever heard that says he paid a debt he didn’t owe. I owed a debt I couldn’t pay.

Tim Barker 16:44
I needed someone. I’m so grateful I didn’t get what I deserved. And there are a lot of people, probably in church conflict, that that don’t deserve the mercy, the grace because of their actions. But those who are mature, restore.

Dick Hardy 17:03
Yep. No, that’s good.

Tim Barker 17:06
I want to extend the same mercy to people in church conflict that I want extended to me when I find myself in need.

Dick Hardy 17:14
That is so good. Tim, I cannot thank you enough for you allowing the Lord the Holy Spirit to speak through you to our viewers and listeners today.

This has been an outstanding description of how we need to handle conflict in the church from a biblical perspective. So thank you. Thank you. Thank you. I really appreciate you taking time to do it.

Tim Barker 17:36
Thank you for having me. It’s a joy to see you.

Dick Hardy 17:39
Thanks for jumping on to the Church Tips Podcast today. We certainly enjoyed having you, and we look forward to catching you next time. Make it a great one today and be blessed.

Jonathan Hardy 17:48
Hey, Jonathan, here real quick before you go, everything in your ministry rises and falls on your leadership. So investing in your leadership is essential to staying healthy and growing the ministry, and that’s why I want to invite you to join us inside the Leaders.Church membership, this online streaming service for pastors, gives you access to more than 300 videos plus training material to level up your leadership and improve your ministry skills.

If you’d like to do that, I want to invite you to go to Leaders.Church/boost. Again, that’s Leaders.Church/boost. Well, thanks again for joining us on the church tips podcast. We’ll look forward to seeing you next time.

Transcribed by https://otter.ai

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