What’s in this Episode?

Join Dick Hardy and Lead Pastor and author, Miles McPherson as they sit down together to talk about his newest book, The Third Option: Hope for a Racially Divided Nation.

Purchase a copy from Amazon: https://amzn.to/3UIjBav

Read the Transcript

Dick Hardy 0:05
Hey friends, it’s great to be with you here on this Church Tips Podcast. And I am so pumped today to be with my friend, Miles McPherson that I met probably seven, eight months ago, down in Birmingham. We were at an ARC conference together and the Lord crossed our paths and I said, Hey, we need to see if we can do something here on your book, The Third Option. So, Miles give a greeting to a boatload of pastors who are anxious to hear from you.

Miles McPherson 0:33
How you doing everybody? Pastors young and old, Miles McPherson, pastor of The Rock Church here in San Diego. We’ll be celebrating 24 years as a Senior Pastor in February, so we’ve got the scars to prove it.

Dick Hardy 0:48
You’ve got the scars to prove it. And he’s yucking it up on that, because I just told him before we jumped on that I was scheduled to have knee surgery in a couple of weeks, and they bumped it up. And so like a week and a half ago, I had knee surgery. So you’re not going to look at my knee, but believe me, I’ve got the real scar down there to prove it.

Dick Hardy 1:05
Hey, and you played for University of New Haven and did, what was it, four years? With the Chargers?

Miles McPherson 1:14
Yes, played four years with the New Haven Chargers and for years with the San Diego Chargers.

Dick Hardy 1:18
So, man oh man. Now I happen to be in Chiefs country. I don’t know if that’s going to affect the our podcast here today or what that’s gonna do.

Miles McPherson 1:26
You know, I was just in Kansas City at the FCA Headquarters, right across the freeway from the Chiefs Stadium.

Dick Hardy 1:33
Yeah, exactly right. Cool.

Dick Hardy 1:35
Hey, let’s jump right into it. We’ve got pastors and church leaders, who are always looking for the things that can help them take their churches to new levels of ministry and leadership. And here, I picked up this great book, man it’s been a couple of years ago, The Third Option, which I think is your like fifth or sixth book, we were trying to calculate that ahead of time.

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Dick Hardy 2:03
But, The Third Option: Hope for a Racially Divided Nation. Now, you know, this is such a germane topic. And you kind of think periodically, that we’ve gone past this and we’re over on the other side of it, and then it rears its ugly head again. So what was the genesis of you writing that book?

Miles McPherson 2:27
Well, I come from a very diverse family. My grandparents are Black, White, Chinese. My grandma is half Chinese and Black. I have a White grandmother, Black grandfather, so I came out with this Latin looking face. And when I was a kid, my father told me I was adopted from Puerto Rico, as a joke. So I grew up thinking, you know, I want to speak Spanish.

Dick Hardy 2:49
Yeah

Miles McPherson 2:51
I grew up in a Black neighborhood where I wasn’t Black enough for some Black people, and went to school in a White neighborhood where I wasn’t White. So, I was kind of in the middle. But my family got along. Diverse football teams got along.

Miles McPherson 3:04
And when I was eight years old, Martin Luther King was killed. And I remember feeling like that was the hope that this is going to be fixed. Because, as we all know, the 60s were very volatile.

Miles McPherson 3:16
So all my life, I had this burden to bring people together, and had experienced Black and White people getting together. My high school was on the border of a Black neighborhood in a White neighborhood. And we had a great time, we all got along fabulously.

Miles McPherson 3:32
And so decades later, I had an opportunity to write a book. It was going to be on something else, and then they asked me to write one on racism. And I jumped at it. And in the process of writing that, Charlottesville happened, George Floyd was killed. And it was kind of perfect timing to come out with a book that can explain how people can get along, because that is my experience.

Miles McPherson 3:56
So I want to think of principles that I can help people apply to their life, because the Whites in my life had a very different perspective than the Blacks in my life. And both perspectives were real. But because we were divided, there was something that needed to be fixed in both of them. And I wanted to write something that could address some of the issues that are very difficult to talk about, but need to be talked about and need to be addressed.

Miles McPherson 4:25
And, you know, I have a brother who was a Heisman runner up in 1987. He was a quarterback and he was a Black quarterback. And at that time, there were very few Black quarterbacks in NFL; maybe two. And he was getting discriminated against because he’s a Black quarterback and he was number one rated pass in the nation and got drafted in the fifth round.

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Miles McPherson 4:48
And I had so many conversations with White guys who wouldn’t admit that race was a part of it. It was so frustrating. And a lot of other events like that through my life. I kept getting confronted with, how can we address this?

Miles McPherson 5:03
And so the book is designed to help everybody realize that there’s racism in every country in the world. There is racism by every type of person, because it’s literally devaluing the humanity of another person because of their differences. And so I wanted to write a book that spoke to everybody.

Dick Hardy 5:23
Well, and you did very successfully. You break this into three parts, four parts, actually. And you’re talking about kind of debunking the us versus them. So talk to us a little bit about that.

Miles McPherson 5:38
Yeah, you know, the number of unity is one. That’s why Jesus said, The Father and I are one. Father, Son, Holy Spirit are one. That’s the number of unity. The number of division is two. And when the devil can pit you against anybody, for any reason, that’s division.

Miles McPherson 5:54
In our culture we have, you know, you’re for or against the police, you’re Republican or Democrat, for or against Black Lives Matter. You got to pick a side. And once you pick a side, you automatically have created an enemy.

Miles McPherson 6:10
And when Joshua was leading the Israelites into the promised land, he was confronted by the Commander of the Lord’s army, Jesus, and Joshua says to the Lord, Are you for us or our adversary? And basically, if you’re not on my side, you’re my enemy.

Miles McPherson 6:26
And Jesus said, I’m not for either. Now, I know Christians will probably be shocked to hear that. Go back and read it. (Joshua 5:13) The Commander of the Lord’s army said, No, I’m not on your side, or your adversary. I’m on my side, this is about me. And, Israel, if you don’t do it my way, I’m gonna punish you.

Miles McPherson 6:46
And so the third option, instead of us versus them, because the devil offers us this binary decision and options, one or the other, the third option is that we honor what we have in common. That we honor the fact that we’re all made in the image of God, we all have equal humanity.

Miles McPherson 7:03
And if we can focus and acknowledge the similarities we have, we have common ground with every person we meet. And the common ground that we have with people is much bigger than the differences. And so the book, and the idea of The Third Option, is that we find common ground and enjoy and build relationships based on what we have in common, versus the differences that the world tells us we have.

Would you like a personal leadership boost? Take the 5-day Leadership Challenge for Pastors! A 15 Minute per day investment for 5 days will change the trajectory of your leadership and influence.

Miles McPherson 7:33
In addition, the differences that the world says we have are actually variations of the things we have in common. You know, you and I may have a different culture, but they’re variations of culture. We have a different color, it’s variations of color.

Dick Hardy 7:42
Yeah

Miles McPherson 7:42
We have a different language, it’s variations of language. Instead of thinking mine is the standard and you’re the oddball out. That’s the devil’s mentality.

Dick Hardy 7:57
Yeah

Miles McPherson 7:57
And so, if we realize that we’re all trying to do the same thing – trying to have families, marry, eat, retire, sleep, you know, enjoy our life. Everybody’s trying to do that. We’re just doing it different ways and we have different options on how to do that.

Dick Hardy 8:11
Yeah, that’s good. You know, we’re talking to pastors here. How is the book being received in the pastor or church community? You’ve got some experience here with this now.

Miles McPherson 8:25
Yeah, I would say the book is very well received. The willingness and ability to speak about it to the congregation, it’s church by church. Because if you have a Black congregation, Black congregations are fully aware of racism and discrimination. Different conversation, if you have Latino congregation, Latinos know there’s racism in the Latino community, they don’t really talk about it. If you have a White congregation, they notice racism, but they don’t want to talk about it.

Dick Hardy 8:58
Yeah

Miles McPherson 8:59
And so, you know, because White people have less experience having those conversations, especially being in on the bull’s eye of it, because you can isolate yourself from those conversations. And so, introducing the idea of talking about it and bringing your congregation through some lessons about it, is a much more scary thing in the White church than the Black church. Black Church, this is what we do.

Miles McPherson 9:30
And so we have a training, a six week small group series that people can get at the thirdoptioncity.com. You can get that and have groups go through it. I teach on six different topics and they go through workbooks, we have many churches that have done that.

Would you like a personal leadership boost? Take the 5-day Leadership Challenge for Pastors! A 15 Minute per day investment for 5 days will change the trajectory of your leadership and influence.

Miles McPherson 9:48
But it’s a scary proposition because people think they’re going to be called out, they think they’re going to be accused of this and that, and really what I’m doing is laying out some Biblical truths about how we get along, how we’re made, and let the Holy Spirit do the work in people’s hearts.

Dick Hardy 10:05
Okay

Miles McPherson 10:07
But even then, we have to be, all of us, Black, White, Hispanic, Asian, whoever you are, we have to be open to what God’s gonna say about our tendency to focus on self over someone else. That’s all it is.

Dick Hardy 10:22
Yeah

Miles McPherson 10:23
There’s racism in Africa, there’s racism in America. It’s not a White thing. It’s a sin thing.

Dick Hardy 10:29
Sin thing. It really is. Okay, so let’s give some advice to or just direction for the pastors. So if they want to pick up the book, certainly they could go to Amazon and pick that up.

Dick Hardy 10:43
I’m intrigued with the the training materials you’re talking about, because this could be very, very helpful to the pastors listening to this podcast. They go to thirdoptioncity.com and it’s at that site that you could pick up, what’s it called? A study guide, or what’s it called?

Miles McPherson 11:06
It’s basically a third option training, it’s similarity training, they can get that. And there’s a Christian version, there’s also a secular version we do. In the secular world, you have DEI training – diversity, equity, inclusion. Our version of that is called similarity training.

Miles McPherson 11:22
We’ve done training with DA offices, police stations, public schools, corporations, and they can get information there about that as well. Because the secular world has a version of this. This is based on honor. How do we honor, place value on, our shared humanity versus shaming people because they’re different?

Dick Hardy 11:48
Yeah. Well this is obviously God centered. It’s acknowledging where racism comes from. It certainly does not come from the Lord. I assume they could buy the book there at thirdoptioncity.com, as well. I mean, maybe that might be more convenient for some.

Would you like a personal leadership boost? Take the 5-day Leadership Challenge for Pastors! A 15 Minute per day investment for 5 days will change the trajectory of your leadership and influence.

Dick Hardy 12:04
So let’s just say, you’ve got a pastor out there that says, Okay, Dick and Miles, Hey, I’m in. I love this concept. I’ve wanted to try to dabble in it, and I’m never quite sure if I’m going to do it right. What’s a parting shot you can give to a pastor, a church leader right now that would encourage them to step forward and provide leadership in this area?

Miles McPherson 12:31
Yeah. And I’m assuming that we’re talking to a White pastor, and that’s who I’m gonna talk to, because you’re gonna have a different level of nervousness about it than a Black pastor on average.

Miles McPherson 12:43
Probably the best thing you can know is that people of color will appreciate you being sincere. Whether you’re gonna say the right thing every time (none of us do) about any topic. So, that’s just a fact. But if you sincerely want to learn, I will tell you, in culture, most often the teacher, the boss is a White person.

Miles McPherson 13:08
And White people as a general, I’m gonna generalize in talking about racism, it’s not as common that you learn from people of color. It’s more common that you’re the teacher. And so learning from people of color, and even trusting that what they’re telling you about this is true, could even be a struggle. I would go into it very humbly as a learner.

Miles McPherson 13:30
Because this is an experience that you haven’t had, maybe not more since George Floyd, but you haven’t had generations of being discriminated against. Go into it as a humble learner. And say, I want to learn and I want to communicate the best I can to my people. And people of color will appreciate that.

Miles McPherson 13:51
I think in my experience I’ve have gotten so frustrated over the decades of trying to talk to people who don’t want to talk about it. That doesn’t get us anywhere. So I think if you’re just humble and sincere.

Dick Hardy 14:03
Yeah

Miles McPherson 14:06
One of the secret sauces of the training, because I’m teaching on these different topics, is the tone. It’s not an accusatory tone, it’s just a matter of fact. Here’s what blind spots are. Here’s what labeling is. And it applies to every person. It’s not against White people, against Black people. It’s against this thing called racism.

Dick Hardy 14:26
Yeah, very good, very good. Friend, pick up the book, The Third Option, either at Amazon or go to thirdoptioncity.com. And you can pick it up and grab the resources that are available. And I am so thankful, Miles, that you took time to be with our pastors and friends today.

Dick Hardy 14:46
In fact, I’m going to just take a take a chance here, that I might be able to get you to pray for the pastors watching and listening to this right now, that the Holy Spirit would guide them on this very important topic.

Miles McPherson 14:58
Absolutely

Dick Hardy 14:59
Thank you

Miles McPherson 14:59
Lord, thank you so much for this opportunity to speak to the pastors and having been Senior Pastor 24 years next month and 16 years before that, I know it’s a balancing act speaking truth to our people when they have so many different opinions and so many different perspectives. But Lord, You told us that the greatest thing we can do is love our neighbor as ourself. Love God with all our heart and love our neighbor as ourself. And this topic prevents us from doing that. We are always on one side or the other, as culture often dictates. So, I pray that The Third Option would give pastors language and insight on how to communicate how the gospel is relevant, how the gospel applies to this division that we have in our culture. Thank you for my parents and grandparents and the struggle that they’ve experienced all their life, and how they modeled unity to me and love for every person in my life. In Jesus name, Amen.

Dick Hardy 15:59
Amen. Amen. Amen. Amen. Well, friends, we’ve been talking to Miles McPherson, the pastor of The Rock Church of San Diego. He’s written the book, The Third Option, go pick it up, and make it a great day today. Thank you Miles for being with us.

Miles McPherson 16:44
Thank you

Dick Hardy 16:45
Be blessed

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