What’s in this Episode?

Authors David Lindell and Brandon Lindell sit down with Leaders.Church Co-Founder, Dick Hardy to talk about the genesis of their newly released book, Lionhearted: A Man’s Guide to Living Focused, Fulfilled & Fearless. They talk about what it means to live a life as a full devoted man of God, modeling what God intended in His creation of the male of the species. They pull no punches in this interview about their potentially game-changing book for men.

 

Read the Transcript:

Dick Hardy 0:06
Hey, friend, it’s great to be with you on this episode of The Church Tips Podcast, and I am so excited to have a couple of buddies of mine, David and Brandon Lindell, on this call today. David and Brandon say hi to everybody.

David Lindell 0:19
Well, first and foremost, we have to say hi to you, because you are also our friend. There we go. So excited to be here.

Brandon Lindell 0:24
Yeah, we’re very, very pumped to be here. Thank you so much for having us.

Dick Hardy 0:28
Well, this is going to be great. I think we do need to tell the audience. I first met you two when you were a sophomore and freshman in high school. So I was our family was moving down from Des Moines, Iowa, and here were these two snot nose junior high and high school kids.

David Lindell 0:45
That’s us, it’s true.

Dick Hardy 0:48
So it was, it’s been a great ride. So you guys have been good friends over the years. It’s been fun to watch you guys marry five steps over your head and produce great kids.

David Lindell 0:57
So that’s true. All of that is true.

Dick Hardy 0:59
Well, here’s what we’re gonna do today. We’re gonna jump right into this. We are here to talk about the newly released book right here.

David Lindell 1:07
Come on.

Brandon Lindell 1:08
Let’s go!

Dick Hardy 1:08
Lionhearted. So this is a great I love the cover, man. I love that. How long did it take you to land on that cover?

Brandon Lindell 1:15
Um, yeah, it’s back and forth. It was back and forth. We had some designers that we know, helping us here locally, and then working with the publisher. But we were so blessed that the publisher, if you, if you kind of rotate it, it’s foiled, and that was their idea. And so we’re so thankful for them. I we just feel so blessed when we look at it every time we’re like, man, the Lord really helped us on that one, because we couldn’t have come up with that.

Dick Hardy 1:40
Well, if you we’ve been around this business long enough without the Lord’s help, it’s not gonna work. Hey, listen, really, I finished the book yesterday, so I’m excited just to talk about it, David, let me throw the first question to you. What was the genesis of this? How did this thing actually come together?

David Lindell 2:02
Well, I think you know, for any author, the best place for you to start in writing is what, what makes you tick? And really, when there are parts of Scripture, specifically as a Christian, you’re writing that the Holy Spirit has put his finger on in your life. And so for us, this is really a life verse. And so we had been talking about it for a while.

You know, I personally, I think for years, had kind of toyed with this idea of what what it would look like to write a book on the heart. And then we started talking about what it would look like if it was directed specifically toward men.

And so originally, when we pitched this to the publisher, they were excited about it, but what they felt had to happen was that it had to be laser focused on men. And for us, we were thinking, hey, more of a general audience would be a good thing.

And they’re like, no, no, you guys have something to say to men. This passage has something to say to men the narrative arc of this book, it needs to be targeted at men because of what men are facing, the cultural narrative around men, the conversation about men, even within the body of Christ, and what it looks like to be a man, what masculinity is and biblically, what the what men need to hear from the Word of God in order to step into their destiny, their role, their calling, their purpose in the home, vocationally and in culture.

And so for us, all of that kind of melded together as we were thinking about, Okay, how are we going to build this out? And so really, the whole book is written around one verse, Dick, like one verse of scripture, an entire book, Proverbs, 4:23, “above all else, guard your heart for everything you do flows from it.”

Because we believe this. It is the one thing that changes everything, the one thing about you that if God gets a hold of, there’s no area of your life or your future that it won’t touch and impact and make better.

And so you know, one of the things that our our mentor, one of our mentors, Pastor Chris Hodges, says routinely to leaders and to anybody he’s kind of in the influence sphere with he’ll say, you know, if there’s a hole, like, what you need to do is you need to plug the lowest hole in the bucket, you know, because that’s how the water level begins to rise, You know.

And so sometimes we’re focused on fixing things that are important. They’re not just they’re just not the most important. And so for us, when it comes to men, this is true of people in general, but specifically for men, they don’t understand the heart.

Women are much more likely to talk about what’s going on the inside. But for men, that can be taboo. It can be like, I don’t know, I don’t want to talk about it. Unfortunately, that then hamstrings everything else that God wants to do in their life and through their life, because they’re not dealing with the center of who they are.

And so to open up a conversation for guys who are trying to walk with God and they’re trying to be a good dad, or they’re trying to be a good you know, employee or employer. You know, they’re trying to walk in the calling of God on their life.

But there’s one thing that keeps tripping them up, and yet, it’s the one thing that either they don’t know how to define or they don’t know how to refine because they’re unwilling to talk about what’s going on at the center.

And so to really get into that conversation and say, Okay, we’re going to talk specifically to the dudes in the room about what’s going on at the core of who you are, because it is the one thing that, if you will address it, it will change the trajectory of your life. So that’s the impetus of this book. That’s the genesis of why we would write a book like this, because it’s just that important to us.

Dick Hardy 5:42
Well, and you really, you nailed it on so many fronts. I served for three years literally in a promise keeper style of ministry, back and, and, and what happens in the heart of a man is just huge. Brandon, what? What are you hearing the book’s been out now at least. When did it release? The first of April? When was it?

Brandon Lindell 6:06
Yeah, that’s when it released. And honestly, we have seen so much just grace on the book in the feedback that we’re getting. One of the things that’s been really cool is we had such a an amazing editor at Baker, helping us, walking us through as we were going through the writing process, pushing on the chapters, making sure that things were done in a quality way.

And obviously we want that, but you’re all you’re just, thank God for good editors. And I say that because, you know, I’ve talked to some people as the book has come out, and they’re like, man, I like read it in one setting, or I couldn’t put it down, and you’re just like, wow, praise God, you know, like, but I thin that that part of that is the Lord helped us.

He put people in our path to help us in the writing process, to make sure that what was delivered was quality, because you can have something in your heart, and if it’s not quality, then it’s going to be hard for it to be delivered into somebody else’s heart into their situation.

And so as we’re talking to guys, you know, getting feedback like that, guys being like, man, there’s some topics in here and some things that are being said that I feel like I’ve, you know, nobody else is saying this or that’s really encouraged me, right?

It’s really cool to hear guys that are just buying cases of books, you know, to give out to guys in their world, you know, or, you know, going through it with their small group, or buying it for their Men’s Ministry.

You know, all those things have been just a blessing and an encouragement through the process. Because honestly, when we were writing it, we’re saying, God, you know, times when you’re when you’re walking through abook process and and you know this to be true is like you’re praying, Lord, I just pray this impacts somebody, because it feels very difficult, you know, to put together like, Lord, if you’re not going to bless us, we don’t want todo it, you know.

And then to watch how God is, is using it to touch guys lives already in in putting it in places. I mean, we got a message the other day that, you know, somebody took a picture of the book being in Barnes and Noble, and yousee them stalking them. We had actually thought that it probably wouldn’t be in Barnes and Noble. So that’s such a cool thing where there’s grace in it, it’s, it’s, you know, getting momentum, and it’s getting out there. But most of all, just to hear guys lives being changed.

In fact, yesterday in a church, a young guy came up and was talking to us about the book, and he had just finished it.

David Lindell 8:28
He was like, starting it again, I’m gonna read it twice!

Brandon Lindell 8:30
Yeah, so excited. And you’re like, praise God, you know, I think it lit a fire under him. And just wanted, wanted, you know, God touching him to, you know, want to be a strong man. Want to want to make good decisions. Want to be a man of God. Want to have the things in his heart in the right place. And that’s what it’s all about, is it’s about, you know, not just you know, guys who are in our stage of life.

You know where we have, we have, you know, kids and wives and and and kids and kids and wives. Yeah, we didn’t learn that we have, you know, we definitely need help, but we have kids. We both have one wife, and we have dogs.

And, you know, life is busy, but to watch somebody at the beginning of their journey, you know, God speaking to them about their heart, and then to talk to guys who are, you know, leading men small groups, and you know, they’re, they’re, you know, on the weekly pouring into guys lives.

And one of the things that you know we often say in regards to the book is men become men in the presence of other men. Yeah, so it’s like, you want this to be a tool, yes, for guys to almost get some godly counseling in the privacy of wherever they’re reading it with the Lord.

You know, there’s opportunities for guys to come to know the Lord in the book that are written in there, where you’re just like, hey, you know, if you don’t know Jesus, obviously getting your heart right isn’t going to happen until he gives you a new heart.

But then, as well, you really want guys to go through the book with other guys. Yeah, you know, to get around, you know, you talk about being a part of the Promise Keepers movement, and there’s such a need in Christianity for guys to have places where they can come together. And it’s not, it’s just guys helping sharpen other guys, iron,sharpening iron.

Because you know guys, even when I say for guys to come together, you know guys instantly like, oh, I don’t wantto do that. You know, it sounds so touchy feely. You know, it’s like, it’s not like that. It’s guys being like, you have to have guys that you’re like, hey, oh, you’re walking through what I walk through.

Or you love God and and you like you seem like a guy that I would want to emulate, I want to follow. That’s so so important for men. Otherwise they get isolated, otherwise they they get depressed, otherwise they get discouraged, otherwise they they quit onthe things that are most important, like their families or their job, because they’ve allowed the narrative in their heart to go bad.

And so they need to get around other guys, they need to obviously know Jesus,and they this book is we hope and pray, and have seen that it’s a resource for guys to just either kick start them or to give them that courage to live literally lionhearted wherever God has placed them.

And so honestly, it’s a lot of thankfulness to the Lord, because, you know, we’re we’re we, you know, we feel like the Lord has led us to this, but at the same time, we feel like, hey, you know we need his help just as much as anybody else.

You know, we need him to be continually pressing on our heart. We need guys in our lives just as much as anybody else, so we just hope this is a tool that blesses guys, encourages them, and helps them in their personal journey and in their journey with the guys in their world.

David Lindell 11:52
Well, and I would piggyback on that by saying something that we felt would be really important with the release of the book is also to record like small group or men’s Bible study curriculum, and so we did that in the spring. So,for any leader who’s listening to this, who’s like, okay, great, another small group, you know, another book to hand out.

It’s not just a book. Like, we’ve got a whole leader resource kit that we put together with. I mean, you can, you can have all the sermon outlines, all the discussion guides, plus all the video content.

So we do, we do six weeks of Men’s Bible study here at James River twice a year, because we want to, we want to launch small groups out of that men’s small groups, and then we want to refresh and encourage the leaders who are leading groups for going, man, if I could have six weeks, that would just elevate the game.

So for us, that’s been really helpful, and we wanted to get that, that resource, in conjunction with the book, into the hands of leaders.

Brandon Lindell 12:45
Absolutely.

Dick Hardy 12:45
Well, and I will say, I attended the Men’s Bible study this last this past the spring session, and you guys just did a phenomenal job.

Brandon Lindell 12:53
Thank you so much.

Dick Hardy 12:55
You know what? One of the things I really appreciated about the book having obviously done connections in Men’s Ministry, is how easy it is to read. Now, I don’t want to, I’m not trying to dumb us guys down, but

Brandon Lindell 13:11
Short sentences, small words, you know…

David Lindell 13:13
Or, big words 2, you know, 5 words, 10 words on each page… children’s book.

Dick Hardy 13:19
Twelve chapters in three parts. So a guy can kind of,

David Lindell 13:22
Yeah, I know, I love that.

Dick Hardy 13:23
I’ve done part one. I’m doing part two. Just very, very good. Now I’m going to talk about this at the end. Obviously, get this at, as you said, Barnes and Noble and get it on Amazon.

Brandon Lindell 13:36
Yeah.

Dick Hardy 13:36
Do you have another website…

David Lindell 13:39
Well, I mean, we’ve got lionhearted.com for all those leader resources. If guys want to connect.

Dick Hardy 13:45
Sure, lionhearted.com

David Lindell 13:47
Correct.

Dick Hardy 13:48
Those resources, there will be the six week video study.

David Lindell 13:51
Yeah, they they would, there’s a leader resource page where they can reach out and we’ll send them high quality video links. So, yeah, absolutely. And then, of course, it links to everywhere books are sold, where. So if somebody likes Books-a-million or whatever, all of those you know places are carrying it.

Brandon Lindell 14:06
Yeah, lionhearted.com is probably the best place for them to go.

Dick Hardy 14:09
OK, Lionhearted.com and we’re gonna have that in the show notes. So just guys, be sure to grab a hold of that. You know. Let’s talk about culture just a bit. I’m old enough that I make a sad commentary every time I see a crime reported on TV. And there’s some 20, year old, 25 year old looking tough, attitude. And I say this is judgment.

No, dad. There’s no dad, in that guy’s life, whatever it is. And of course, we know the stats, yeah, the number of men that boy, when Mother’s Day comes around, they’re all about it. Yeah, Father’s Day comes.

Around its crickets, and the critical nature for our the critical issue for our culture. Once you talk a little bit about that, how could this impact culture in the church? And I’m presuming we wanted to reach outside the church, yeah, a little bit about man, man and culture.

David Lindell 15:19
Yeah well, I mean, the fact of the matter is, in the United States, this is a particularly desperate situation because of the developed nations. I believe the US is the leader in fatherlessness. So, I mean, you just think about that.

So this is a nation with Christian origins, you know, Judeo, Christian ethic, lots of gospel awareness, lots of gospelpenetration into the center and the core of the culture. And yet this issue is so pervasive, and that speaks to the fact that America desperately needs spiritual awakening and revival.

So that is part of it, that the gospel needs to go forward, and churches have to be as aggressive as as ever at getting the gospel out and reaching the communities, the cities, the states in which they are. So that is clearly in view. The other thing about it is that men, just in general, across the landscape of the US.

So we’re talking about, I realize we’ve got leaders from around the world listening to this, but the truth of the matter is this issue is affecting men globally. But in the United States, researchers say that the revenue from the porn industry exceeds pro basketball, pro baseball, pro football combined annually. So you think of all the revenue the NFL makes, the NBA makes, the MLB makes, and you put all of that together, the porn industry is bigger than that.

So this is how much, and that’s just one facet, one one distraction, one sin that is got so much of a hold on the men in and here’s, here’s the thing for the pastors listening to this, do not be fooled in thinking that, yeah, it’s real, real shame that that’s happening outside the church.

No, there’s a lot of men sitting in the seats on Sunday looking at porn on Friday night, and so we as leaders have to own the responsibility to say, I am not going to sit on the sidelines while I watch a culture eaten alive, and men, in particular, as you’re pointing out, there’s a lot of a lot of neglect, I would say, in discipling, strengthening, raising up men in a culture that constantly beats them down, disparages their role, and makes them feel bad for stepping up, taking initiative, taking responsibility, and leading.

And so that is it’s a tragic trajectory that our nation has been on. And I do think there are a lot of voices calling attention to it, a lot of voices who are speaking up, and you’ll notice, I mean, this is the Jordan Peterson phenomenon. Men want to take responsibility.

There’s something in the core the way that God created them. Men do better with the load. They’re like pickup trucks. There’s something about having that load in the back that just stabilizes them. And yet, calling men to take responsibility without a heart change is so good it doesn’t actually lead them to a place of purpose.

It doesn’t lead them to a place of understanding their God given calling it puts a burden on them that they cannot bear over the long haul, and so disconnecting responsibility from repentance and heart transformation is never going to work.

And so for us, going back to the book, the point is to say, okay, yeah, you need to understand what’s going on on the inside, and you need to take seriously the impact of the core, the outflow of the core, of who you are.

But unless you get a new heart, this is what the Bible says. God promises that He will give people a new heart, a heart that is responsible or not responsible. It will be responsible but responsive to the voice of God.

So when, if your heart is not has not been made new, if you don’t know what I’m talking about, as you’re listening to this podcast, God wants to give you a heart that can has the capacity to respond to him and then walk in the purpose and calling that he has on your life, and until he does that in your life, you can’t.

Just so for guys, I think there’s this tragic reality that so many men are trying to bear the burden of being a husband and a father, being a leader. They’re they’re trying to walk out principles that they have no power to walk out because your… the power for that comes from getting a new engine on the inside.

And that engine that is the Holy Spirit, is the one who gives that to you and then powers that in order for you to walk out the calling and purpose on your life. And so I would just say, pastors and leaders, we have to help men wrap their minds around that and then position them to get what they need, and then ongoing, disciple them in the stewardship of the core of who they are.

Because all of us know, just because taking the car analogy a little too far, you can have a really nice car with a really great engine, and you can drive that right into the ground. And so for Christian men, that’s not the that’s not the end, all be all. It’s the start. It’s the you know, it’s getting what you need in order to live out the calling that God has for you.

But then you need, like Brandon said, you need men around you. You need, there’s all sorts of realities that have to begin playing out in your life in order for you to step in to what God’s called you to, and then you can be a culture shaper.

So God is raising up, I believe, an army of men who take seriously what’s happening at the core of who they are, and don’t sit passively on the sidelines and let life happen to them. They actually lead right?

And so that’s why the title of the book is “Living Focused, Fulfilled and Fearless”, because this is, we believe, the mandate on the lives of men who are part of the Kingdom of God.

Brandon Lindell 21:09
The title, the subtitle…

David Lindell 21:09
Subtitle, did I say title? Subtitle, it’s in the title.

Brandon Lindell 21:11
So I like to add a voice to the culture thought it’s in the book. We, we, we don’t want to pull any punches as that are necessary. For example, just like guys who are making excuses or taking the path of least resistance, we do alot of talk on that, you know, being a victim in their situation.

I mean, nobody is going to do well in life if they start with that as their foundation. So it’s getting the heart right and obviously addressing some of those issues. And I think we talked pretty directly on those issues, because we do feel guys need that kind of voice in their life.

And actually, guys appreciate it. They’re like, just, please tell me what to do, you know. Like, I don’t want you to beat around the bush. Just give it to me straight, you know. And, and so we try to do that at the same time we feel in culture, there is, obviously, you don’t, you don’t want to allow issues that are going to be toxic in guys lives.

But then there’s that flip side where, you know, guys are looking like David said to be in and you were bringing upthe fatherless need in our culture, in our generation.

So they’re looking for a guy who can be like, what does it look like to be a man? Yeah, and so when you when you speak with strength, that is a good thing. I think that helps guys grow.

At the same time, there are voices out there that are incredibly harsh and frame masculinity in like, almost a rah, rah, like, you know, how much can you bench like, you know, how you know it’s a it’s a disparaging of other people and other voices and all of that and and there needs to be a voice that is willing to tell the truth, that is willing to help guys, willing to cut it straight, willing to speak with strength.

But at the same time, have the voice of Christ that says, You know what? That doesn’t mean you need to be a jerk. That doesn’t mean that you have to beat every other guy around you or show how awesome you are.

There is an ability to be a strong man, to love Jesus really? What is? What is strength? What are we saying when we’re saying Lionhearted? We’re saying, man, do the deal and do it even when it’s hard. Yeah, you know, love people even when it’s hard.

Speak life, even when it’s hard, love your wife, even when your marriage isn’t great. Love your kids, even when you don’t think you know what to do. Have your time with Jesus every single morning, no matter what, and you will be a lion hearted man.

And we really feel that voice and that that thought needs to be given out there, because you’re right. There are a lot of guys who are like man, what does it look like to love God and to do this well?

And nobody’s talking about certain subjects. And yes, we want to speak to those subjects and help them, and do it with strength that at the same time, not just skew to the other side, where it’s like, you know, where they’re like, Okay, to be a man means I have to, you know, like, cut down people all the time, or just be, you know, super annoying. So and love people.

And really, I just really feel, and we feel that that voice needs to be heard in culture, a voice of strength, but a voice of love. And obviously, even with that be annoying, I don’t want to cut anybody down. It’s not that’s not thedesire of that statement. The desire is to say that doesn’t have to be what strength looks like, yeah, you know.

And obviously Jesus modeled that so well, the ultimate strong, lionhearted man. He’s the lion of the tribe of Judah. You know, he was a man of strength, but He did, He did… He showed strength and he showed purpose, and he showed resolve, even when it was hard. But he did it, um without, you know, just being, being a jerk.

David Lindell 25:03
Also, as the lamb of God, yeah.

Dick Hardy 25:06
Lionhearted A Man’s Guide to Living Focused, Fulfilled, and Fearless. Guys, this has been great. I do want to ask you a final question, if somebody… they haven’t captured anything. What is the one thing you want them to remember? Out of our discussion here today?

David Lindell 25:27
I would just say the heart is the one thing that changes everything. And so when God gets a hold of you at the core and you really submit your heart to following him and pursuing what He has for you, it changes everything else in your life.

And so the writer of Proverbs, which Solomon, it’s a father to a son. This is, you know. So some of you don’t have a dad, as we’ve been talking about, let Solomon function as a spiritual father to you and give you some wisdom that’ll change your life.

Brandon Lindell 25:59
Yeah, absolutely. And I think there’s guys, obviously, this is a podcast for leaders, and there’s guys who are leading things right now, who, you know, who David, you know, brought up porn and, you know, just different issues that we kind of just glossed over, you know, given the time.

But just really, if somebody’s listening to this. And they’re like, Man, I got, I got stuff going on in my life that I need to deal with.

Then, even right now, you don’t have to have the book to get your heart right with Jesus. And so I would suggest, hey, stop, pause the podcast for a moment, and say, Lord, help me change my heart and make me, God, a lionhearted man, and help me get rid of the issues.

And then get some guys in your life who can help move you that direction.

Tell somebody what you’re walking through. Get some Godly counsel, because if you’re going to be a leader for the long haul, you want to be a lionhearted leader. And if you’re going to do that, it’s going to start by what David was saying, getting your heart right.

Dick Hardy 26:58
Exactly right. Guys, this has been so good. I’d like to wrap up our time, if you’d give me the honor to pray for the book and for the guys who are and for the women who are watching this podcast. You want to get this book for the guy in your life. I’m telling you it has the potential to really be a game changer.

Let’s pray, Father, thank You for this time you’ve given David, Brandon and I together. I pray for Lionhearted, Lord, that it would explode and penetrate the hearts of men and boys all over the country and the world. I pray God that you would do the work in this book that only you can do.

The guys have done the human work, and we’re grateful for that, but we pray your blessing and anointing on everything that goes forward. We pray this in Your name. Amen. Okay, Lionhearted, pick it up at wherever books are sold, and we are so grateful. David and Brandon, thank you very much for taking time to hang out with us.

David Lindell 27:54
Hey, thank you. What a gift to be on with you.

Brandon Lindell 27:56
Yes, we love you, Dick, you’re awesome, and you’re such a blessing to the body of Christ and so many leaders. Thank you for having us.

Dick Hardy 28:03
Thank you very kind of you, and to the viewer, the watch the listener. Thanks so much for hanging out on this Church Tips Podcast. We’ll look forward to seeing you on the next one. Make it a great one today and be blessed.

Jonathan Hardy 28:12
Hey, Jonathan, here real quick before you go, everything in your ministry rises and falls on your leadership.

So investing in your leadership is essential to staying healthy and growing the ministry, and that’s why I want to invite you to join us inside the Leaders.Church membership, this online streaming service for pastors gives you access to more than 300 videos plus training material to level up your leadership and improve your ministry skills.

If you’d like to do that, I want to invite you to go to Leaders.Church/boost. Again, that’s Leaders.Church/boost. Well, thanks again for joining us on the Church Tips Podcast. We’ll look forward to seeing you next

Transcribed by https://otter.ai

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